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What you are all saying about the NEW "Oldest Raleigh Chopper In The World"
Before you all start about the "Frame Numbers" of the two Raleigh Choppers, which are competing to be the Oldest Ones, I would just like to say my bit. "Jim Barnard has been a great help to this site, and has never given me any doubt to think he would even think about making up a frame number. He does NOT need the ఠreward, and over the time I have known him, I have no doubt he would NOT even contemplate making up a frame number. This page is for interest only, and the reward will stand. I know that if it ever came to his attention that the person he purchased this Raleigh Chopper from had made up the frame number, I am sure I would be the first to know. Well done Jim for finding this superb Bike."
CLOSE UP PICTURES OF BOTH FRAME NUMBERS ARE NOW AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE.
Hi Everyone, My name is Paul Trainer. I work for "Raleigh Cycles" here in Nottingham. My Father worked here before me and his job was stamping the frame numbers, This requires alot of skill so that no damage is made. My point is this, if you take a look at http://www.rcoc.co.uk/reward.htm you will see that the "2" in the yellow chopper frame number is not correct, Please take a good look and post your reply's and thank you for reading my message.
Paul Trainer
Nottingham
Well Well, I have just had the micrometer up against my computer screen and yep defiantly not the correct number. The 2 has been struck at a later date.Simbo
Simbo @ hotmail .com
I must agree it looks suspicioustyrone
tyrone32@btinternet.com
The whole aspect of age identifying a MK1 from its frame number seems a bit of a grey area, from the 2 hot-one mags that i have (courtesy of Mr.Roney) there are a couple of Mk1's on the bike register page with what looks like early frame no's, one being 0000143 (an anonymous owner from Kent) the other being 0248148 and by the look of things Jim Barnard owned that one too rolex replica watches at some point, somehow i cant imagine Jim braising up his serial numbers and re-stamping them just to win మMay be worth some-one who has the rest of the Hot-one mags checking the other bike registers to see what turns up. Safe to say that there are obviously proto-types out there for some lucky sod to find, problem is I think America have the majority of them! Fair play to Mark Rich for coming up with the idea and sticking to his word,its given fake rolex a few of us something to do by checking all our MK1 serial numbers.
WELL WELL WELL IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS SOME "RINGERS" GOING ABOUT!! RICHDOG YOU SHOULD KNOW ALL ABOUT VIN NUMBERS!! FRESH OLD PUDDING & PAINT ABOVE THE NUMBER TOO!! AS THEY SAY ITS A "DOG EAT DOG" WORLD!!!!!!!!JASON
jeffrieslad@hotmail.com
Strange how we've never heard of any of the people going on about Richdogs mk1,as for Paul trainer, load of old tosh. If you cant leave an e-mail, don't leave a post...
And the next guy? oh, not a hotmail address surely........
Oh, and as to frame numbers, NO, THEY WERE NOT IN NUMERICAL ORDER.!!!!!Catfood Rob
CatfoodRob@CatfoodCircus.com
All 1968 choppers started with the serial numbers 04163** Some for the UK and the bulk being sent to the USA. Anything else is a fake. It is not the ఠreward that bothers me, it is the fact that someone has gone to the trouble of stamping a frame so they can collect ర + for it. Now that's worth commenting on, so what da ya say Catfood ?.
I have a 1968 chop and the serial number is 0416361 so i can not see that raleigh would start numbering from 0416200 as they say in statements from the past only a few prototype models were made and i think around 50 bikes sounds about right, if you take into acount that the scrap yard/tip has most of them then perhaps there are only less than 10 in existence. After all how many out of the million +++++ still survive ? Not as many as you may think. And Mr Barnard's chopper is not the oldest in the world so Mr rich i can not see why you have decided to call yours the Second oldest when there is doubt about the new find. Let us see how long it takes Dr barnard to restore it, if it is the oldest in the world then restoration will begin right now, or will it. I bet there will be no buyers if it comes up for sale. and yes this is my name (i only look at the market place usually)Daniel Stephens
tel 07956 348643
hey me old pal Jim, to stop all this gossip why not have the frame number x-rayed then you can post the results on this/any site for us genuine brits to see. you must agree it is the most sensible thing to do
oh sorry forgot to leave my id.
Does anyone have it as gospel from Raleigh themselves that the serial no's were started in 1968 at 0416200? It seems strange to me that they'd start there, then at some point go backwards (as there are choppers out there with earlier no's made in 1971)then have to revert forward again for the rest of the MK1's! We are all guessing but does anyone actually know.Alex
alex.jewell@purple-chopper.freeserve.co.uk
Number stamp sets $10 inc p&p worth at least $1000 a frame free filler and grinding tool. Due to our stringent trade laws we can only ship within the USADr itup
USA only .com
Greetings one and all!
As usual, if I wait long enough before coming to check out the latest gossip, there's always some quality scuttlebutt flying about when I return to this board.
You guys positively slay me! Does anyone actually think that Jim Barnard would spend several hours of his valuable time "doctoring" up an early `69 tall frame's serial just to acquire ి... or the alleged prestige of claiming he has the earliest Chopper built? Gimme' a break! Trust me, as a long time friend of Jim, I can safely say he wouldn't waste his precious time on such a feeble goal.
And what's up with all this 1968 model year/prototype Chopper nonsense? If there actually WERE any prototypes in existence, do you really think they would have come off eBay for dirt cheap like Mark Rich's blue, early `69 Mk1? (yes, I saw that bike when it sold on eBay for $142 about 3 years ago) There is no such thing as a 1968 model year Chopper. Plain and simple. Just because something has a hub date of such & such a year doesn't mean diddly! If you found a `68 date coded hub in a `69 tall frame, it can mean NUMEROUS things. e.g. rear wheel could be from a `68 Raleigh Fireball... could be from ANY 36 spoke holed 3spd touring bike of that vintage... could be that ALL early `69 Choppers had `68 hubs along with the brake-cable-through-the-frame thing as well as the inverted rear brake caliper, etc. I have personally seen no less than 8 or 9 of these elusive mystery Choppers in omega replica my 12 years of collecting them, so I am really struggling with all these having once been a ⯴otype䯍 begin with.
Who has the earliest/lowest frame number?... who really knows and who really cares?! Aren all just supposed to be having fun with these silly kidࢩkes? I know *I* am!
Choppers out.Dale Cramer/Chopper City, USA/Sunday the 21st
peelerboy@qix.net
Subj: Date: 20/04/02 21:57:56 GMT Daylight Time From: Removed To: markrich2000@aol.com Sent from the Internet (Details)
MARK,I Hope you don't pay out with that poor attempt of frame number, that number two is well dodgy dog, fresh paint & filler suspect!!! Not even rubbed down properly, who does a job like that?? Hope you & the family are well, Regards.
Subj: me here Date: 21/04/02 21:45:14 GMT Daylight Time From: autoeurop@btinternet.com To: CatfoodRob@lineone.net, steve.roney@lineone.net, darrenpsych@hotmail.com, MARKRICH2000@aol.com, rnlawrence@btinternet.com, Jgbarnard@aol.com, john@gaillees.fsnet.co.uk, yellow_man8@hotmail.com, Chopperhotrod@aol.com, alex.jewell@purple-chopper.freeserve.co.uk, bt014c4869@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent from the Internet (Details)
As my postings on Marketplace get removed
The guy who hosts my website also built the website for Raleigh, He himself
used to own a bike shop and is in touch with some 3000 shops that he now
supplies wholesale stuff to.
He will be ale to get the answer to what the oldest serial No. is I am sure
of it.
TCSE
Subj: (no subject) Date: 23/04/02 03:26:12 GMT Daylight Time From: WANDA9243 To:
Hi Mark,
I was just reading about the oldest bike controversy. I'm amazed the negatives that are being said about Jim Barnard.
I've know Jim for years, he's a good guy. I know he would never do anything dishonest like changing a frame number. He has worked really hard to gain the respect of people in the hobby. The last thing he would do is do something to loose that respect. He loves the bike hobby! He does it for pleasure!
I saw the bike just after he got it and nothing has changed on it since he brought it home. Frankly at that time he was listing about 150 items on e-bay, running a business, raising a family and going to bike shows. Don't think the guy has a spare second, let alone the time and effort it would take to doctor the number.
Wanda
Subj: OLDEST CHOPPER Date: 26/04/02 15:07:42 GMT Daylight Time From: daren.thechoppershop@virgin.net To: Sent from the Internet (Details)
HI MARK, CAN YOU PLEASE ADD THIS TO YOUR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE NEW OLDEST CHOPPERLET ME START BY SAYING I HAVE JUST RETURNED FROM NEW YORK WHERE ONCE AGAIN I HAD A GREAT TIME AND WAS WARMLY WELCOMED BY STEVE (SAVRACING) AGAIN, WHO TOOK ME TO SEE JIM BERNARDI HAVE KNOWN SOME PEOPLE IN THE CHOPPER SCENE AND SCOOTER SCENE FOR YEARS AND SOME FRIENDS WHO WOULD NOT HAVE PUT THEMSELVES OUT AS MUCH AS THESE GUYS DID, STEVE ESPECIALLYIT WAS A 4 HOUR TRIP TO JIMS FROM STEVE'S AND THE DRIVE ALONE WAS WORTH IT, BOY THAT GUY CAN DRIVE, I COULD PARK MY CAR IN THE REAR OF HIS VAN, THESE 2 NOT ONLY HAVE GREAT BIKES BUT COOL MOTORS.I HAVE HAD A FEW CHOPPERS IN MY TIME BUT THERE COLLECTION EPICALLY JIMS KNOCKS THE STUFFING OUT OF ALL OF MINE, THERE IS ONLY ONE OTHER PERSON WHO COMES CLOSE AND THAT'S NIVEN LADD , IF YOU PUT HIS COLLECTION AND THERE'S TOGETHER YOU COULD OPEN A MUSEUM.JIM HAS EVERY RARE CHOPPER YOU COULD WANT AND SOME MOREAND THE 68 IS A 68 I SAW IT 3 DAYS AFTER HE BROUGHT IT AND HAVE MANY PICS, I JUST HOPE HE DOESN'T RESTORE IT AS ITS FAR TOO GOOD AND ORIGINAL TO TOUCHIF ANYONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING WHY O WHY DO YOU BROADCAST IT ON HERE OR THE MARKET PLACE WITHOUT GETTING IT SORTED WITH WHO EVER IS CONCERNED, AND WHAT'S THIS ABOUT THE NO2 I HAVE LOOKED AT ALL MINE AND THE ONLY PROBLEM I CAN SEE IS SOME ARE PISSEDP.S DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY ORIGINAL CABLES, R NUTS, MUDGUARDS, RACKS FOR SALETHANKYOU DAREN
HI MARK ...... I WAS LOOKING ROUND THE CAR BOOT TODAY AND CAME ACROSS AN OLD CHOPPER ........ ANYWAY HERE IS THE FRAME NUMBER (see pic)....... CAN I NOW HAVE A PACKET OF GUM AND A MARS BAR FOR FINDING AN OLDER CHOPPER THAN Dr BARNYARDS ........ THANK YOU .... ROD FRASER (YES THIS IS MY REAL NAME)
WHAT IS JIM SAYING?
Subj: Re: www.rcoc.co.uk Date: 22/04/02 01:02:25 GMT Daylight Time From: Jgbarnard To:
No biggie Mark,
There is a shoddy repair to the drop out right above the frame serial number. It looks fake due to the repaint at the weld. They are right to question it. I wish it was not like that.
I did not do the repair nor the repaint. I requested no reward as I did not know of it untill you told me. Yes, I see that it was on the site all along, but I was not aware of it. I also must claim ignorence of the blue bike's frame # even though I see a pic of it on the site now.
I am a hobbyist who is not in this for money, rather the love of my youth where a small part was played by a neat little bicycle that expanded horizons that I could reach.
I will try to remove the respray with lacquer thinner and we will see if there is rust or corrosion on the stamped serial numbers [like the blue bike]. If not conclusive, I will sand blast the frame in the spot in question and take a pic of that.
I am very pleased to have found a early tall frame. I will check your site soon to see what people have been saying. I hope what I see there won't lessen my enjoyment of this bike.
I would guess that anything negative said must be from folks who do not know me.
Jim
Subj: E ghad Date: 22/04/02 01:59:03 GMT Daylight Time From: Jgbarnard To:
Christ!,
I have just read the comments on my claim that I have the oldest chopper in the world. I guess this is more important than I thought. I am willing to entertain suggestions on what would be the best way to prove that the serial numbers are original.
I have a digital camera at my disposal as well as a video camera. I will record the paint removal if this will be seen as proof.
I am also willing to mail the frame to the UK for verification. I wish not to have to do this due to the possibility of loss or damage, but as a hobbyist and an honest guy I feel that it may be necessary. I have a trusted friend in West Malling, Kent who I bet will be a 3rd party observer in this case.
As I figured in my previous email, I do not believe that my detractors know me. The people who know me, in this hobby, know that I am not going to fake a serial number at the expense of my reputation.
Jim
Hi Mark Rich here.
I know that Jim has found the OLDEST RALEIGH CHOPPER IN THE WORLD, and I am glad it is him. Jim has been into Raleigh Choppers for years, and is one of the biggest names in Raleigh Choppers. Jim has my full support and I will always know he now has the oldest one.
Well done Jim, and I am so pleased you found it.
Mark WWW.RCOC.CO.UK 26/04/02
